Talk:Honeysuckle

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Well on most plant pages we typically show one photo only, and then link to others if there are others. At least that's how it was being done weeks ago; I'm not sure if that's how it's still being done. Also, I'm on broadband but I know most people aren't, so we should probably limit download sizes when possible. Koyaanis Qatsi

Take a look at Spanish moss to see how another page does it. What do you think? Koyaanis Qatsi

Linking sounds alright to me; I just wouldn't like to see an image relegated to the orphanage after some fellow wikipedian went to the trouble to scan and upload it. Mkweise 05:07 Feb 20, 2003 (UTC)

Actually, I've deleted several of my own photos after someone uploaded a better one (this happened already at blueberry and sunflower), but I see your point. I'll link them instead. Hey, Jimbo says hard drive space is cheap!  :-) Koyaanis Qatsi

IMO there's a lot to be said for a good old-fashioned artists' rendering of a plant, animal or especially a person. It lends a refreshing human touch. Mkweise 06:24 Feb 20, 2003 (UTC)

Ok, but I'm a human too and there are human decisions in how to take and present a picture--lens choice, angle of view, depth of field, distance to subject, lighting, etc. Koyaanis Qatsi, slightly miffed amateur photographer.  :-)

Didn't mean to discount the human input that goes into photography, but I still find there's something charmingly "retro" about hand drawings. (I feel the same way about acoustic instruments.) Mkweise 08:05 Feb 20, 2003 (UTC)

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Lonicera

gardens

I think it should be mentioned that many species and cultivars are grown as ornamentals. The reason I didn't add it myself is that I'm wondering whether "most common" species means most common in gardens. If so, then ornamental value should probably be mentioned right before that sentence. —JerryFriedman 18:50, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Pruning

Would it be appropriate to add a section on pruning the honeysuckle?

Toxic to dogs

It might be helpful to mention that honeysuckle is toxic to dogs and could kill them if ingested. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.178.234.98 (talk) 14:40, 8 May 2007 (UTC). yes its advised that the honeysuckle berries are not ingested by pets as it may lead to fatalities — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.94.150.28 (talk) 12:53, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Growing

How to? Buy from garden store? Seed, cuttings, transplant, luck? jengod 19:57, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Is this for encyclopedic record or personal interest? I've seen decorative honeysuckles sold as plants in nurseries, but I believe in my state (FL) it's illegal to trade the Japanese kind because it's an incorrigible weed. I have scads of it in my backyard. Anyway, is this about adding something about growing the stuff to the article, because I'm sure if you looked up a major nursery catalogue it can be found, either for reference or personal value. Hmm, I wonder if a nursery catalogue is a proper reference for how plants are sold.... Garnet avi (talk) 08:57, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Edibility?

When I was little, there was a plant - either this or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentiana_andrewsii">Gentiana Andrewsii </a> that we used to pluck the flowers and suck from the bottem... sweet - sweet enough to continue to do, but not become obsessive about (i.e. if something/ANYTHING came up that was better to do.. even an ephermeral idea... off we went... still they were sweet.) Not all were sweet - some were tasteless.. but the sweetness was worth continuing. Flowers were not eaten - sucked from the bottom - flower part tossed (mainly because after sucking the flavor was gone). To my knowledge this was 1) flowers consumed only by children 2) considered a weed in the flowerbeds of the adults 3) usually readily found on the edges of flower beds in our area (natural soil type was dense clay) 4) only bloomed toward end of summer (shoot - was about 25 yrs ago) 5) usually found same areas where you find flowering clover.. only closer to domesticated flowers (at least the ones that survive the weedwhacker)

We called them Bluebells, but looking at the pictures of bluebells today... nope... single flower, short plant. Much more like the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentiana_andrewsii">Bottle Gentians </a>but as a young lad... who didn't gave a hoot - it was a flower , blue, usually closed , sized (as defined) in a plant sized between clover and strawberry (closer to clover) and usually found where clover was.. but only flowering close to flowerbeds.. but amongst the clover outside the actual bed. When the flowers did unfold, they looked more like gentiana than when still closed..

No idea what the plant was (never paid much attention as I grew older), gardeners in this area considered it a weed... kids though it was a sweet treat in the july/aug period.. area is north central NJ. (Don't know if they still do it, but was same time frame you braved the bees to pick the wild ras/blackberries from those thickets (blueberry almost as hard.. just not as dangerous ;) [or same time of year])

I did this in elementary school living in Maryland. It was definitely Japanese Honeysuckle. You pull off the green back and push up on the flower tube and a drop of necter beads up. I've done it more recently, but it's not that much necter and the novelty's worn off. You can do this with clover, too, but that's even trickier. Garnet avi (talk) 09:02, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Hybrids

I notice that none of the hybrids made it into this article. Here, in Portland (Oregon, USA) the available sorts are:

• Lonicera × brownii (12 feet, USDA Hardiness Zone 5),
• L. × tellmannia (15 feet, Zone 5),
• L. × heckrottii (15 feet, Zone 5) and
• L. × americana (22 feet, Zone 6).

These are all climbers. I know the last two at first hand, and they have really long blooming seasons, unlike any of the species Honeysuckles of my acquaintance. I read somewhere a long time ago that Honeysuckles that have scented flowers are pollinated by bumblebees, but those having unscented (to humans, at least) are pollinated by flies. The usual practice in this Encyclopedia would have that the title of this article be Lonicera, not Honeysuckle. Some problems I also noted in other Lonicera-related articles.C.s.auaeginal (talk) 00:43, 23 February 2013 (UTC)c.s.auaeginal

sweet perfume smell

Please add information about the well-known sweet perfume smell odor of honeysuckle. Some varieties have and some don't? Which species most have the familiar smell? -71.174.185.30 (talk) 03:06, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Content and references added. Thanks. --Zefr (talk) 18:38, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Other species

Removed this vague list from the article under species. Relevance? --Zefr (talk) 18:08, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

• Burchellia bubalina (L.f.) Sims (as L. bubalina L.f.)
• Chiococca alba (L.) Hitchc. (as L. alba L.)
• Spigelia marilandica (L.) L. (as L. marilandica L.)
• Symphoricarpos orbiculatus Moench (as L. symphoricarpos L.)
• Viburnum mongolicum (Pall.) Rehder (as L. mongolica Pall.)

References

redirect

For the sake of consistency with other botanical pages, there should be a genus page called Lonicera that could link to a Honeysuckle page if necessary, or redirect Honeysuckle to Lonicera. Redirecting the scientific name Lonicera to a common name is inconsistent with hundreds of other genus articles. 50.39.102.168 (talk) 01:29, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

This appears to already be done, according to Lonicera? - Adolphus79 (talk) 02:55, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

No, that redirect is (IMHO) in the wrong direction - Honeysuckle should redirect to Lonicera. Currently Lonicera redirects to Honeysuckle. The genus Lonicera contains plants that are not immediately recognizable as a common 'honeysuckle'. Perhaps there should be two pages, one that addresses the botanical aspects of Lonicera, and one that addresses the more popular aspects of Honeysuckle, however the current article appears to be more in line with other 'genus' descriptive pages. Perhaps review the chain of Wiki articles from the parent family Caprifoliaceae tracing through a few different genera to the species, then note how the Lonicera link breaks the standard by redirecting to Honeysuckle. 50.39.102.168 (talk) 17:44, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

I understand now. After looking at other articles, and even considering the individual species articles linked from this one, it would seem like it should go the other way. I do not see any problem with the page move, and can easily complete this request, but have asked for a second opinion from WP Plants, just to ensure it wasn't done like this because of a standard they might have that I do not know about because I don't work with a lot of plant articles. - Adolphus79 (talk) 19:10, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

WP:FLORA applies. The relevant quote is "Scientific names are to be used as article titles in all cases except when a plant has an agricultural, horticultural, economic or cultural role or use that makes it more prominent in some other field than in botany; e.g. apple, flax, rose. These exceptions are determined on a case-by-case basis through discussion towards consensus." I don't see a strong argument that this qualifies as an exception. Lavateraguy (talk) 19:33, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

@Lavateraguy Honeysuckle is a surprisingly popular plant and page. I would not have guessed that it is more popular than lilac before I looked at the numbers, but it is. Daily views averaged 7/1 to 7/1 over three years.

•  1328 - Tulip (Tulipa redirects there)
•   683 - Honeysuckle (Lonicera redirects there)
•   459 - Syringa (Lilac redirects there)

The Google Books Ngram for tulip, honeysuckle, and lilac is also interesting. There lilac blows both honeysuckle and tulip out of the water over the last ten years. Before that it was a good deal closer. But more relevant to me is the fact that over the last 35ish years honeysuckle has been holding onto tulip's coattails basically the whole time.

While it is not a slam dunk obvious case of WP:COMMONNAME / WP:FLORA, I think honeysuckle does actually have the cultural ties for it to continue at its present name. 🌿MtBotany (talk) 02:49, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

In general, I support the use of scientific names, so would be happy with the suggested move. In the UK, it's really only the twining species of Lonicera that would be thought of and called 'honeysuckles' – indeed, I didn't at first recognize the shrubby species Lonicera tatarica and its hybrid Lonicera × bella as Lonicera when I first met them in Canada. However, both twining and shrubby members of the genus do have horticultural uses under English names which include the word 'honeysuckle', so treating Lonicera at Honeysuckle has some justification. Peter coxhead (talk) 19:50, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you both, I will go ahead and make the move now. - Adolphus79 (talk) 20:52, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

A counterargument is that there is not a singular horticultural usage for honeysuckle. There the winter honeysuckles (grown for their scented winter flowers), the bush honeysuckles (grown for their spring flowers), the box honeysuckles (grown for their evergreen foliage), the climbing honeysuckles (grown for their summer flowers), and Lonicera caerulea (grown for its edible fruits). Apples, rose and lilies are more coherent horticultural subjects. Lavateraguy (talk) 20:53, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Ok, I couldn't move it on my own because Lonicera already exists... I have made a request though, if anyone feels they need to comment on the official request... - Adolphus79 (talk) 21:01, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

As I commented at the technical request, I oppose this move. While it would be consistent with many other plant genus at their scientific name rather than common names, this common name is well known among the public. It is almost as popular a common name as Tulip, another genus at its common name rather than at genus Tulipa. Evidence of popularity Google Ngram. Tulip is one of the most popular flowers and honeysuckle comes in just slightly under it on the Ngram. Scientific names usually come in way under even rarely used common names, so that does not matter nearly as much as the fact of the popularity of honeysuckle. 🌿MtBotany (talk) 21:18, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

No problem here, that's why I asked y'all at the WikiProject for more info, and now we know why it is the way it is. So, basically, it's a case of WP:COMMONNAME? - Adolphus79 (talk) 22:10, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

@Adolphus79 I think so. I would understand if you wanted to argue that it still should be at Lonicera, I can disagree without being disagreeable. We don't have a bight line of where we should make the split. And I wish we did. Some number of hits on some service where we could say, "Oh, this is well known enough, common name". Even that would be sorta arbitrary, but I like numbers to prove things. 🌿MtBotany (talk) 22:39, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

At this point, I am happy to leave it up to @50.39.102.168 if they wish to pursue it any further, there are enough people in this conversation now to make a consensus one way or the other, and a move request has been opened to make it official. My opinion is that (Lonicera as article, Honeysuckle as R to scientific name) is the most logical based on the other articles that I looked at (purely for uniformity's sake, as the IP originally mentioned). It seems a number of us could go either way, so let's see what the IP thinks now that we have more input from more knowledgeable editors than I. - Adolphus79 (talk) 23:19, 23 July 2024 (UTC)