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Scope of the Project, Notability Rules (clarification), and Syntax for the Watchlist are linked here: Watchlist Talk Page. A discussion on the types of chapter status is here: F&S Project talk page, Archive #7.

Redlinked universities and colleges

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I have updated the master list of institutions that are red-linked in chapter lists for fraternities, sororities, honor societies, and other groups covered by our WP. This list is alphabetical by school name and includes all known associated groups in that single entry. There are also some sources to aid in creating articles for these redlinks, as identified by various editors. Items can be removed from the list, once an article is created. Rublamb (talk) 00:14, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Substandard chapter lists

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This section is transcluded from /Substandard chapter lists. (edit | history)

This is a working list of articles with substandard or missing chapter lists, which merit the attention of Project editors. For examples of lists, see List of Zeta Psi chapters, List of Beta Theta Pi chapters or the Alpha Delta Phi Society. If you are working on an article, please indicate below. Strike out when the article is fixed. Jax MN (talk) 21:34, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note that this list had been much longer; editors have reposted it after removing the completed projects. Jax MN (talk) 19:44, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rublamb (talk) 07:47, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Substandard lists of notable members

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This section is transcluded from /Substandard notable member lists. (edit | history)

This is a working list of articles with substandard, bloated or missing lists of notable members, which merit the attention of Project editors. For examples of lists, see List of Alpha Omicron Pi members or List of Alpha Delta Phi members, though each of these could be expanded with a chapter location field. As another example, Phi Kappa Theta does a nice job with their notable members list, with the addition of some color title lines. We may opt to use this styling as a way of breaking up a wall of text.

Standard content for a member list is name, chapter and initiation year, notability, and references. Long list are usually divided into careers such as academia, art and architecture, business, entertainment, government (non-political) law, literature and journalism, military, politics, religion, science and medicine, technology, and sports.

If you are working on an article, please indicate below. Strike out when the article is fixed.

To avoid vanity listings, on these page's Talk pages, it would be helpful to add a list of rules for inclusion, as discussed here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Fraternities_and_Sororities/Archive_6#Notable_members_2. Jax MN (talk) 17:55, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Many GLO member lists are simple lists of names. This is just a start.

  • List of Alpha Delta Phi members, needs a location field (to clarify, does each line need a location of that chapter? or skip this?)
  • List of Alpha Omicron Pi members, needs a location field (to clarify, does each line need a location of that chapter? or skip this?)
  • List of Acacia members, alphabetize lists by last name, alphabetize sections, needs references
  • Delta Zeta, inset list of names, ought to merit a list article with table.
  • List of Eta Kappa Nu members, simple list, few references, needs chapters and locations. As a point of clarification, for honor societies that award membership as honoraries (~mid-career) it seems we should simply note that they are an honorary member of the national society if they were not initiated into a specific chapter.
  • List of Sigma Alpha Epsilon members, needs table(s), needs references

Cleanup project

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The main list of infobox issues can be found at Category:Fraternity articles with infobox fraternity issues.

I have these here from other discussions so they are easier to find:

  1. "| coat of arms or "| crest" where "| image_size" is null or missing. (The size parameter is manually adjusted, depending on actual image size.) - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing image size (1) --Done. Note that I downsized somewhat the crests and other infobox graphics, too many of which had crept so large that they were inadvertently expanding the infobox width. Of course, if someone wants to see a larger image of the crest, they can click on it, or go to the original source. Flag images are now typically 120px, and member badges appear about the size of an actual badge, or maybe up to 20% larger. Jax MN (talk) 22:35, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  2. "| founded" where the tag structure "{{Start date and age|yyyy|mm|dd}}" is NOT used - tracked at petscan DONE
  3. missing |affiliation= - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing affiliation (2)
  4. missing |type= - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing type (3)
  5. missing |scope= - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing scope (1)
  6. missing |member badge= - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing member badge (801)
  7. missing |chapters= - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing chapters (23)
  8. missing |members= - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing members (752)
  9. missing |website= - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing website (127)
  10. Missing short descriptions. - tracked at petscan DONE
  11. Orphans - via WP Orphanage search and petscan DONE
  12. missing |status= - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing status (0)
  13. Article name does not match infobox - DONE
  14. Missing infobox - DONE, if had WP F&S Rublamb (talk) 00:42, 29 June 2024 (UTC)}[reply]
  15. Missing country
  16. Unreferenced - working list pulled and shared in a new section below 29 June 2024
  17. Notability - working list pulled and shared in a new section below 29 June 2024
  18. Primary sources - tracked at petscan
  19. One source - working list pulled and shared in a new section below 29 June 2024
  20. Has bibliography but lacks inline citations - tracked at petscan
  21. Needs color boxes (Helpful link, has colors, flags and, addresses of Baltic, Scandinavian, German, and Polish fraternities)

Rublamb (talk) 01:16, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fraternities and Soroities Guideline

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Is it possible to make a comprehensive guideline article for how a standard fraternity or sorority page should look? I've found Wikipedia:College_and_university_article_advice to be incredibly helpful. Of course each page would have a level of uniqueness to it, but just as any university there are some standard characteristics that should be recommended.

Please let me know if I am missing something on the project page, but I currently do not find the templates section to be sufficient. Pancake621 (talk) 18:53, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Pancake621. I note you recently joined the Project. We welcome you. Reading your question above I was intrigued to note the support document for college and university articles, originally written back in 2007. I'm sure it has been heavily used. It was thus a factor in the decade when most of those articles were created. We could certainly use it for our efforts to finish writing articles about dormant schools. Meanwhile, as to your query about a similar style and syntax guide for fraternity and sorority articles, while we may have benefited from such, years ago, alas, I don't know that anyone ever created a similar guide. However, much of the direction you seek is here in the archived TALK pages of this Project page, with a few key items pinned to the top. We track substandard chapter list pages, missing school pages, and discuss the details of stylistic points here. Several of the most active project editors operate with a strong consensus gained from these earlier discussions, but that doesn't really help you if you don't have a ready-reference.
Because this is 2024, and many of the GLO articles are much advanced from their origin as stubs, and the many list pages we track are quite improved from fifteen years ago, I'm less inclined to write this document. However, many points from our archived discussions could be summarized or hyperlinked to quickly form the framework of a new guidance article. Are you interested in working on it?
Yours was a fair question, and I realize that, had we had such a document a decade ago when I was beginning to work on these articles, perhaps we could have corralled other new editors to the Project, and maybe avoided various AfD battles. A guideline like this would have been a solid framework for consensus. Still, we're far more organized and these articles have been much improved over the past decade. Jax MN (talk) 19:07, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the welcome!
I'd be happy to help refine a draft! I feel as tho I am far too new to this WikiProject and wiki-editing in general to create a helpful guideline. (for example, I am a bit unsure of how'd to create that page on the backend for everyone to access).
I also agree that many articles seem to be beyond an original draft, but I've still used them to improve start- or c-class articles for the university wikiproject. I also think it would be good to have a reference for people looking to improve their own organization's page to have some easy to reference guide. Pancake621 (talk) 00:16, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think that is a good idea. Although some groups have variations specific to them, there is a format we tend to use. In addition, there a plenty of discussions to pull from where we decided what content to include in a given section or format for content. It is something I keep meaning to draft. Rublamb (talk) 19:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be happy to help refine a draft! Pancake621 (talk) 00:16, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I will get to it eventually. Currently working on a bear of a project. Rublamb (talk) 13:23, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Theta Nu Epsilon?

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Hi All,

Was just talking with @Naraht over some deletions I made over at Theta Nu Epsilon. Long story short, about a decade ago a bunch of sockpuppets put a whole bunch of fake history on that page and I'm trying to sort out the legit from the totally bogus. There is a whole talk page about it, but complicating the issue is a bunch of the sockpuppets engage in a fake fight with each other. Anyway any help folks could give in cleaning up the article would be greatly appreciated! Jjazz76 (talk) 20:53, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Primary source used for the chapter list that was recently deleted is the one from a website that someone put together, which can https://web.archive.org/web/20150403113708/http://thetanuepsilon.org/13Chaplis/ChapterList.html . Other lists that I have found (mostly by googling "Theta Nu Epsilon" and picked at random from the first list Bowdoin) include https://books.google.com/books?id=xbU0AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA233 and https://books.google.com/books?id=PfDmAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA228 . The second although without letters, is from Banta's greek exchange. Note, normally I'd consider Banta's and Baird's as being neutral secondary/tertiary sources for articles about GLOs, but for Theta Nu Epsilon, they would be viewed as *somewhat* antagonistic. Went through my copies of Baird's, and wierdly enough some of the index entries in some editions were screwy, but they best I could do is the 1930s Baird's which had a list of those that were part of the 1925ish reconstruction to be more acceptable as a GLO like those in the NIC (no double membership, etc). This is missing quite a few. For example, *every* source I can find has the chapter list starting Wesleyan, Syracuse, Union, Cornell and Rochester. I'd also suggest editions of the Wesleyan Olla Podrida, for example https://books.google.com/books?id=va8PAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA67 .Naraht (talk) 21:11, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Baird's 20th has a list of 17 chapters. I'd suggest we roll back these edits and begin looking for sources that confirm each of the groups previously listed. Jax MN (talk) 22:09, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate the effort to improve this article but I agree to a rollback is best in this situtation. Some of the recently deleted content appears to have legit sources, such as athe chapter list. If content with a citation is going to be removed, there needs to be documentation as to what was wrong with that source, probably on the article's talk page OR replacement content with a new/better source. If these edits are being made based on personal knowledge and not sources, that falls under original research. Rublamb (talk) 22:24, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Some of the sources, as far as I could tell, didn't exist or were legitimately made up. The archive talk page way at the bottom, from back in 2008 describes the issues further. But again, if folks think I've deleted too much, I'm totally fine with that. Just trying to work on an article that is a bit of a mess. Jjazz76 (talk) 22:35, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
References: Cite error: A <ref> tag is missing the closing </ref> (see the help page).[1][2] Jax MN (talk) 22:46, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for these. I just want to make clear I have no issues with Baird or any of the standard reference volumes. There is also a good NY Times article citation in the article that discusses these 1910s to 1920s issues. But the article as it stood, base on a mid-2000s website, list well over 100 chapters many of which had no documentation in Baird, standard reference volumes, or some of the college newspapers I looked through. Jjazz76 (talk) 22:57, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good faith, certainly. I found some of the claims to be dubious or worse when I worked on that article. However, after I cleared out some of the chuff, I left the long-ish list of chapters as a breadcrumb trail to help others start their searches for individual chapter references. I also wrote the summary reference (#1, below), which I think is a fair round-up of a couple of sources. I use that language elsewhere, so had copied-and-pasted it from the U of MN list of fraternities on Wikipedia. More broadly, it may be useful in a revision to the TNE article. Others here are better researchers, and we welcome additions to our ranks. I anticipate that the legitimate TNE chapters will surface in one or two references, somewhere. Jax MN (talk) 23:28, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
GLOs rarely show up in campus newspapers after the 1980s unless there is a hazing incident or chapter house fire, so that does not prove or disprove a chapter. Frustratingly, even yearbooks are not accurate in the last quarter of the 20th century. And, since Baird's last edition was in 1992, we would expect there to be a difference between it and an organizational chapter list from the 2000s. A lot can happen in 2000 years! I will see what I can find--just give me a few days to wrap up other projects. Rublamb (talk) 23:56, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Baird's and other sources note ΘΝΕ was an ill-favored national due to its recruitment of sophomores who were already members of other fraternities, and a policy of secrecy about the active members – those same sophomores tapped each year. It was NOT an honorary, nor a service society. (Freshmen were not eligible, juniors and seniors were advisory only.) Hence, ΘΝΕ became a bit of a pariah, and members were pressured to quit lest they be expelled from their primary fraternities at Minnesota (see ΦΣΚ Rand History); in 1913 the NIC advocated vigorously against its collegians joining ΘΝΕ. Struggling for a workable path to legitimacy, several varying models developed on ΘΝΕ's campuses, where some chapters became standard fraternities, and other public inter-fraternity groups. At Alabama, it even became a political machine, while other chapters took yet other forms. Later, with the adoption of changes, ΘΝΕ briefly joined the NIC in the 1930s, but ceased operations after WWII. Several chapters reformed the society as a smaller entity, some becoming co-ed in the 1970s. The fraternity reports a few chapters that remain active today. --All information compiled from Baird's 19th, from the cited ΘΝΕ website, and a note about Theta Nu Epsilon in ΦΣΚ's Rand History, in a reference cited under that fraternity, p190.
  2. ^ Frank Prentice Rand (1923). Phi Sigma Kappa: A History 1873 – 1923. Northampton, Massachusetts: The Council of Phi Sigma Kappa, via The Kingsbury Print. p. 190ff.

Rollup of Parameters and values. *VERY USEFUL*

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A bot runs every month (current was done on June 1) that has a rollup of all of the values. (https://bambots.brucemyers.com/TemplateParam.php?wiki=enwiki&template=Infobox+fraternity) This was a *lot* of useful information, for example, for the parameter patron roman divinity , you can show links to all of the pages that use it *or* click on the Unique values columns, see how many unique values there are and for each of *them* see what pages they have. One annoying piece of data, I want to track down. 787 pages with the infobox, 787 with type, 787 with scope, and *786* with founded. Which means *one* article doesn't have it.

It is generated monthly, so we won't be able to see our recent changes for a bit, but it *will* be useful. Let me know what you find most useful!Naraht (talk) 03:23, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Another issue: The Bot reports 787 pages with the Infobox fraternity. The List of Articles on the WP landing page only has only 744. If I understand how the List is generated, this means that 43 articles do not have WP Fraternities and Sororities listed on their Talkpage. I will see if I can find these using petscan. (Anything to avoid fixing the issues with Christian fraternities). Rublamb (talk) 15:01, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Petscan found seven. Working on it. Rublamb (talk) 15:30, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July

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Looked at the talk page for the creator of the bambot (User:Bamyers99). It appears that the run with the June 1 data was created on June 9. It processes a generated file from Wikipedia that takes a while to generate. I dropped him a note thanking him and asking if the 9th was about normal. (With these types of generated files, I'd be *very* surprised if it ever came earlier than the 4th).Naraht (talk) 21:13, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July has been generated. Any additions of suggested/required will not show up until August. I'll take a look at July to see what changes we are looking at.Naraht (talk) 17:14, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And the work I did yesterday is not reflected. I guess will will need to wait another month to make sure that unwanted fields are truly not in use. But this is still progress. Rublamb (talk) 19:11, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Correct. It is based on the State of the Wikipedia database as of July 1.Naraht (talk) 20:08, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Founded

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As of June, there was *one* infobox without founded. *If* the infobox is set so that it is suggested or required, the rollup will show a link so we can see which one is missing. Similarly, I think it could be done on the others that are more than 700, chapters, name, birthplace, and country.Naraht (talk) 01:59, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Or, I was thinking we could use Excel to compare the complete list with the list of items with countries, etc. It has been a while since I have used that feature, but it should yield a list of aritlces lacking whatever component. Rublamb (talk) 05:24, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Found it! Aquinas Honor Society. Working on getting a date, I've found one that places it no later than 1951.Naraht (talk) 15:14, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Great! Rublamb (talk) 15:20, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

August is up

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Exactly 800 with the template. I'll move comments over to Template talk:Infobox FraternityNaraht (talk) 13:08, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Current list: Infobox fraternity/sorority & Notability or No Ref Tag

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Delete: I'm unable to find any other sources. Still can remain on the LGBTQ list article. Rublamb (talk) 01:12, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I found nothing that was helpful to add. It can be on the list of service and/or religious GLO, but this article should be AfD. Rublamb (talk) 23:03, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Only other sources were mentions of brides or graduates being members. The one secondary source is a local newspaper that basically quotes a member who says it is a local that has existed for 30 years and has 1000 alumni. The bulk of its content is from the group's website. But enough to be included in our list article. Rublamb (talk) 23:50, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: I cannot find more sources. See discussion below and on the article's talk page. Rublamb (talk) 02:07, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Naraht (talk) 15:57, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Naraht: can I merge my short list of articles with no sources into this list since the issue is pretty much the same? Rublamb (talk) 19:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sure. And Tau Alpha needs To be restored to the list reverted my removal. Currently at Talk:Tau Alpha, would appreciate eyes on.Naraht (talk) 19:29, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Rublamb (talk) 23:58, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

German groups

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My addition of chapter count to the infobox of a German group was reverted with this comment: "German student fraternities, known as "Studentenverbindungen," do not have chapters in the way that English fraternities do. If one were to find an equivalent to this concept in German student fraternities, the fraternities themselves would be considered the chapters of the umbrella organizations." ThoughtS? Do we need to exclude chapters from those with the Studentenverbindungen type in our report for missing chapters? Does this impact how we treat the German umbrellas? Rublamb (talk) 13:46, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I *think* that they are mostly right. And I think Studentenverbindungen is the plural, the singular is Studentenverbindung and I think the German Umbrellas should be treated link the US ones like PFA. (though probably *not* in the same article) and it isn't *just* German, I think Austria, the Baltics, Poland and maybe Czech Republic & Slovakia.Naraht (talk) 15:44, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have worked on many of these articles and it is always a bit off from our norm. So is each group/chapter a Studentenverbindung (singular) in their infobox, rather than a Studentenverbindungen? And, we would no longer use the chapter field for any group with that type unless its website states a chapter number. Or should we translate to "student organization" or "student association" for type? Rublamb (talk) 18:23, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My preference: type = Studentenverbindung (the singular)
yes on the website has to give a number otherwise leave it off
Drop the issue category if the type is Studentenverbindung . Primefac Is this is possible?

There seems to be terminology for dueling vs. non-dueling groups, as well as other types of Studentenverbindung. Once we/someone gains a better understanding of the various articles (list to come later) maybe we can use Emphasis to better describe. Or, maybe this can be part of the new infobox? Rublamb (talk) 17:36, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Portal Diskussion:Studentenverbindung

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I've reached out to the Discussion group over on dewiki at de:Portal_Diskussion:Studentenverbindung#Request_knowledge_from_english_language_wiki_on_Studentenverbindung and got some really great answers to things. And as I said before, I'm thinking of creating an Template:Infobox_Studentenverbindung equivalent to https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorlage:Infobox_Studentenverbindung if I can understand all the fields.Naraht (talk) 19:42, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

New term. What to do about it? "Diaternity"

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I ran across the term "Diaternity" or "diaternities" on the UVA fraternity list, then tracked its recent use elsewhere to at least one small, co-educational, transgender-focused or multicultural fraternity. This appears to be a newly-coined term, which an LBGTQ+ group, Lambda Delta Xi may have created, and which they define as "to transcend boundaries."[1] The term is quite new.

While I am supportive of clarity and inclusion regarding language evolution I don't necessarily want to indulge every trendy word or phrase, or co-opted new usage. --It's so easy to over-reach in adopting new terms as they appear, and it seems to me that Wikipedia and the Wictionary are somewhat conservative in this, as are encyclopedias and dictionaries, generally. Jax MN (talk) 21:30, 6 August 2024 (UTC) Jax MN (talk) 21:30, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can't remember which group, but the term was coined maybe ten years ago. If that is what the group calls itself, I see no issue with including that in the article. Same difference as allowing some sororities to continue to self-identify as a women's fraternity. If diaternites is used by more than one group, it might be worth mentioning in the overview article(s). Rublamb (talk) 01:11, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to University of Virginia fraternities and sororities#Social diaternities, there are four national diaternities. Might be worth breaking these out in List of social fraternities and sororities, once we determine the four. Rublamb (talk) 18:52, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We have three of the four in List of LGBT and LGBT-friendly fraternities and sororities:
  • Lambda Alpha Lambda (local, 2 chapters)
  • Lambda Delta Xi (local)
  • Sigma Omicron Rho (local)
  • Chi Alpha Iota (local), not currently in the list
Rublamb (talk) 18:57, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Note, this new, 2-chapter organization does not have a Wikipedia page. Lambda Delta Xi website

Article cleanup needed

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One of our main articles, Fraternities and sororities, has had a factual accuracy tag since March 2023. I just added a few sources, which is part of the issue. Since other have worked on this article in the past, you may have a better idea of what content is questionable. Rublamb (talk) 18:08, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is also a discussion on the articles Talkpage about moving this to Collegiate fraternities and sororities. Rublamb (talk) 22:27, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Landsmannschaft (Studentenverbindung)

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Please take a look at Landsmannschaft (Studentenverbindung). I cannot tell if Landsmannschaft is the umbrella for a group of fraternities, if it is an individual fraternity, or if it is different or the same as a Studentenverbindung. Rublamb (talk) 17:12, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Awareness builder

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Editors with ties to some of the GLOs -- some of the bigger social fraternities and APO are examples -- brand their User pages with small banner tags noting membership. It might be a helpful long-term objective for the Project team to create these, one for each society in their colors, that they might be picked up by editors (typically, new editors) to drive Project participation. We could pin them to each Talk page, with instructions for use. Jax MN (talk) 17:50, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia:Userboxes/Collegiate sororities and fraternities Rublamb (talk) 02:58, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Convention Lists?

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Are Convention Lists appropriate for articles. (June 5-6, 1904|Cincinnati|Royale Cincinnati Hotel) etc. Naraht (talk) 17:25, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Visually, they're not problematic, as they break up walls of text. They may be marginally useful, so I don't rush to cut them. But neither do I make a special effort to add them -- there are more valuable edits to be made. How is that for splitting hairs on an answer? If voting, I'd keep them. Not a strong opinion either way. They can, occasionally, add historical context and show an operational period of activity. Jax MN (talk) 17:49, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would, in general, say that including convention lists runs afoul of trivia; unless something monumental happened at a specific convention (which can just as easily be mentioned in prose) the average reader will not need to know, nor care about, in which city the 1958 Convention took place. Primefac (talk) 18:39, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not to mention the convention hotel and theme. I support including the first national convention in the text, as well as those conventions with major outcomes, such as going coed, desegregation, mergers, name changes, etc. I remove unsourced convention lists when I come across them and have, in the past, merged a few stand-alone list articles, only sourced to the group or unsourced, into the main article using the above guidelines. If the conventions are included, we really should find secondary sources; newspaper articles are pretty easy to find for anything pre-1960s. Rublamb (talk) 03:12, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Categories needed

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I have come across several articles for founders that don't fit any of existing categories. The closest I can come to is using "Honor society" or "Fraternites and sororities" but that does not help in pulling a list. For that matter, the founder categories we have are all nested under a fraternity category, so those cannot be consolidated into one list.I think we need a general categories, nested under "Fraternities and sosorities" or "Honor socieity" for:

  • Fraternity and sorority founders (could be split into Fraternity founders and Sorority founders)
  • Honor society founders

Rublamb (talk) 17:36, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you please give me examples of either articles or Categories?Naraht (talk) 23:10, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One example is Adele Gerard Lewis Grant who formed the first US honor society for women (survives as a regional organization that needs an article). She also started Sigma Delta Epsilon, a national women's science fraternity, still active as Graduate Women in Science. There are so many members of the later, we could probably add a category for it. See List of Graduate Women in Science members that I just created. Rublamb (talk) 00:45, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just found the categories "College fraternity founders" and "College sorority founders" and "College honor society founders". I had not been looking with the word college. So we are good as long as we are dealing with collegiate groups. But still may want to create the GWIS. Also, may need a high school category for someone like Jacob Broughton Nelson. Rublamb (User talk:Rublamb) 04:24, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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