Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Words to watch
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Addition to Note C suggestion[edit]
I notice the {{Like whom?}} template is missing from Note C, which reads: The templates {{Who}}, {{Which}}, {{By whom}}, or {{Attribution needed}} are available for editors to request an individual statement be more clearly attributed.
Also, the template {{Where}} is similarly nowhere on the page. Not a big deal I suppose, just pointing this out. 5Q5|✉
Should WP:BUZZWORD be moved here?[edit]
Reading WP:BUZZWORD, I noticed that it recommends avoiding the word "solution" and its wikilink leads here, but the anchor is broken. My investigation then revealed that this page (MOS:WTW) used to contain a section on the word "solution", but the whole section was removed back in 2010, with a simple edit message of "tightening": [1].
I think the topic of buzzWORDs to avoid/watch belongs here more than in the essay where it's currently found (WP:PLAINENGLISH). Do you agree? If so, do you have any advice for me regarding moving the content (e.g. should I incorporate the deleted text in any way)? Bendegúz Ács (talk) 20:45, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
- The easiest solution (uh) may be to just remove the broken link from "solution". Content gone for 14 years probably wasn't missed, otherwise it would have been restored much earlier. Gawaon (talk) 21:01, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
- :D Obviously, but that doesn't mean it's also the best one. One possible explanation for why it
wasn't missed
is that we do have WP:BUZZWORD and that's also why I'm suggesting moving that content here, rather than simply restoring the original one. Bendegúz Ács (talk) 21:10, 6 May 2024 (UTC)- In my viewpoint, that advice is fine where it is. Nothing wrong with it, but it reads more like an essay than like a MOS page. Plus, of course, it expands on issues that are already quite well covered in the MOS, so merging it in would probably require considerable work. Gawaon (talk) 21:16, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
- How about a shortened version? It could even just be mentioned in one or two sentences under an existing section like MOS:PUFFERY and keep the original WP:BUZZWORD in the essay for a longer explanation. Bendegúz Ács (talk) 21:35, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
- In my viewpoint, that advice is fine where it is. Nothing wrong with it, but it reads more like an essay than like a MOS page. Plus, of course, it expands on issues that are already quite well covered in the MOS, so merging it in would probably require considerable work. Gawaon (talk) 21:16, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
- :D Obviously, but that doesn't mean it's also the best one. One possible explanation for why it
"Wikipedia:FLUFF" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]
The redirect Wikipedia:FLUFF has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 May 10 § Wikipedia:FLUFF until a consensus is reached. Jay 💬 12:19, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
Can MOS:ACCUSED contradict MOS:CLAIM[edit]
My interpretation of the text used here is that "accused" should only really be used when one is suspected of a crime and not more generally. I recently had a disagreement with another editor that had a different interpretation (see Talk:Golden rice#2024 case in lead for background). I suggest that it might be useful to clarify how MOS:ACCUSED is distinguished from MOS:CLAIM directly. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 09:42, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- The text actually talks about "wrongdoing" rather than "crime", and I think that makes sense. For example, "She was accused of deliberately misleading the public" might be appropriate enough, even if she didn't break any law. Gawaon (talk) 11:59, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- This is where the disagreement about interpretation came in. I thought that the example used in the latter half of
are appropriate when wrongdoing is asserted but undetermined, such as with people awaiting or undergoing a criminal trial
was important. It lead me to the conclusion that such phrasing should be using sparingly and in specific contexts, not simply x accused y of being misleading. Given the general vibe of MOS:CLAIM, I think neutral language is generally preferred if there is a way of phrasing things that way. Maybe my interpretation differs from the broader community, maybe it doesn't. Hence my desire for clarification on what others think. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 12:10, 6 June 2024 (UTC)- Well I guess such words are only necessary when there is uncertainty on whether the accusations are true. If we positively know, thanks to RS being all in agreement, we could simply write confidently, in Wikipedia's voice: "She deliberately misled the public". Gawaon (talk) 13:16, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- This is where the disagreement about interpretation came in. I thought that the example used in the latter half of
"Statesman" and "nationalist"[edit]
I've been noticing that POV-leaning contributors and articles tend to use the descriptors "statesman" and "nationalist" (sometimes both) to implicitly express approval of some people, rather than the more neutral "politician".
These labels aren't necessarily contentious; they're often used by sources themselves, some of which are also clearly POV. Is this something we should try to discourage? 104.232.119.107 (talk) 16:18, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
- A nationalist need not be a politician. —Tamfang (talk) 06:28, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- Right, I should have specified; more talking about the use of that word for articles about politicians. 104.232.119.107 (talk) 07:06, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
- And same for "educator"; that word seems to be absent for maligned people who were teachers at some point. 104.232.119.107 (talk) 20:34, 16 June 2024 (UTC)