Talk:RAI

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Requested move 16 July 2024

It has been proposed in this section that RAI be renamed and moved to Rai (Italian broadcasting company).

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

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Links: current log • target log • direct move

RAI → Rai (Italian broadcasting company) – the common name is "Rai"; see the official site: https://www.rai.it/, the Treccani encyclopaedia: https://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/rai-radiotelevisione-italiana/, and the it.wiki page: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai. JacktheBrown (talk) 22:01, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support. This does make sense from my point of view. I would also like to note that just because another Wikipedia Language (such as the Italian one) doesn't really count/prove the point that the common way the company spelt is spelt "Rai" and not "RAI" at all really. Soafy234 (talk) 00:36, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose per WP:TMRULES. As "RAI" is an abbreviation with meaning, the noncapitalization is a stylization, which Wikipedia is in the (annoying) habit of rejecting. Most Wikipedia policies regarding stylized capitalization are behind the times when it comes to recognizing how common stylized caps have become in most media, industries, etc. (add in backronyms, and stylized acronyms such as we see here, and these policies just don't have a chance of being consistently enforced) and need revisiting. AVNOJ1989 (talk) 00:48, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@AVNOJ1989: see also the Treccani encyclopaedia: https://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/rai-radiotelevisione-italiana/. JacktheBrown (talk) 01:07, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support to move but a more concise name in the brackets may be better. I believe "Italian broadcasting company" is too long here. Cfls (talk) 03:32, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Move to "Rai" By Pageviews analysis of the disambiguation page for "Rai", this broadcasting company gets more traffic than everything else by that name with the exception of athlete Rai Benjamin who is not commonly known by his first name. It is legitimate to make this the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and put other uses in the disambiguation page. I agree, the organization is stylized "Rai" not "RAI" and there should be a move. Bluerasberry (talk) 15:45, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strongly Oppose the primarytopic takeover. Support Rai (broadcaster) or some such disambiguated title. Otherwise we're just making it more ambiguous, less recognizable, less precise. Dicklyon (talk) 05:09, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also note that the supports above mine were for the disambiguated title originally proposed, before the proposal was changed to be a primarytopic takeover. Dicklyon (talk) 05:11, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I reverted the confusing change of the proposal. Proposals should (at least generally) not be changed after a significant amount of discussion of them has already occurred, since this creates confusion over what was being discussed. Alternative suggestions can be discussed without going and modifying what has already been recorded as the original proposal. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 12:24, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for that. Since we already have Rai (broadcaster), and since Rai (Italian broadcasting company) has been objected to by Cfls in favor of shorter disambiguator, I'd say I strongly support the Rai (broadcaster) alternative. Dicklyon (talk) 15:11, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Dicklyon: very strongly support for Rai (broadcaster). JacktheBrown (talk) 20:40, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support—ick, that discredited "primary topic" nonsense. Tony (talk) 00:50, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: It's an acronym, for Radio Audizioni Italiane, so capitalized as an acronym per MOS:ABBR. The fact that the entity no longer uses that full name is irrelevant. NAACP remains "NAACP" not "Naacp", despite the fact that they no longer use their original full name. There are many other cases like this. E.g. IKEA. We also do not lower-case things to match excessive lower-case stylization in marketing materials like logos, per MOS:TM: it's Macy's and Pyrex, not "macy's" and "pyrex". — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 16:24, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. It's an acronym and that's still how it's most commonly seen in English. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:55, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Question. According to the lead, this broadcasting company hasn't been known as "Radio Audizioni Italiane" since 1954 – if the acronym is so important, then why is their logo lowercased, as in "Rai"? Seems like it's time for some catchup. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 13:05, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @Paine Ellsworth: exactly, but native English speakers don't know Rai in detail, so the article is likely to remain at 1954 as far as the name is concerned, which is very disappointing. In Italy, and Rai is Italian, the name is almost always written in lowercase. JacktheBrown (talk) 13:33, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - Well, sources in English appear to use RAI more than Rai, so you're probably correct, and you just might be disappointed. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 16:19, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Paine Ellsworth: readers who see the logo in lowercase and the title in capital letters will probably wonder why; although I may be disappointed, it's the encyclopaedia's problem, not mine; I have done my best. JacktheBrown (talk) 18:02, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: it's counterproductive to keep "RAI", in capital letters; see "Fiat" (Fiat is also an acronym). JacktheBrown (talk) 13:50, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- And Fiat is used in lower case in the English-speaking world too. But RAI generally isn't. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:41, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Tentative support move to Rai - I need to see evidence that "Rai" has become the common name **IN ENGLISH**. Evidence of it being an official name in Italian is irrelevant. Looking through, though, I do see some evidence that this is the name used in English. For example:

Based on that, whilst I personally find this kind of re-branding annoying, it does appear to have become the common name in English used in reliable secondary sources, and this appears to have been going on for some years. FOARP (talk) 11:13, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

- @FOARP: exactly, keeping the name in capital letters means not updating. JacktheBrown (talk) 13:07, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]